Caribbean HR Solutions CEO Debra Fraser on Leadership Across Borders

On the latest episode of An Entrepreneur’s Vibes Podcast, we sit down with Debra Fraser, the dynamic CEO behind Caribbean HR Solutions, a company that has been redefining human resources and talent acquisition across the Caribbean and beyond for over 14 years. Debra shares her powerful story on the podcast and talks about how she transitioned from a budding entrepreneur to a leading voice in HR. From navigating the early challenges of business ownership and growing her company into a global player.

We explore Debra’s unique perspective on leadership and how she views HR’s role evolving in the business world. She also shares lessons that she’s learned about resilience, people management, and scaling across borders. If you want to know more about how Debra built and led a values-driven HR outsourcing company that has an international impact, this conversation is packed with insight! We’ll discuss what is HR management, the importance of HR in company growth, and more!

Debra Fraser on Cultivating HR Leadership

Debra Fraser’s entrepreneurial spirit sparked long before she founded her HR outsourcing company; in fact, it started all the way back in her childhood. With Jamaican roots, growing up in Toronto, Canada, Debra was the kind of kid who naturally spotted business opportunities. Whether through teaching piano lessons or replicating mall finds and selling them for profit, Debra’s innate drive always pointed to creating, selling, and leading. “I really do believe that’s a gift,” Debra says. “You can learn it, but there are definitely people like me who are just born to do business.”

Debra’s passion for entrepreneurship aligned with her expertise in human resources. She took a short-term mission trip to Jamaica and had planned to return to Toronto, but fate had other plans. Debra got offered a role as Head of HR at Vistaprint in Montego Bay. It was a position Debra didn’t think she could land back in Canada, and that move became the catalyst for her. With a front-row seat to learn how global companies were drawn to Jamaica’s talent and culture, the experience helped her discover an opportunity where she could help other businesses navigate Jamaica’s landscape. 

And that was how Caribbean HR Solutions came to be. It was a company designed to support international businesses entering the Caribbean with everything from compensation strategy to recruitment. What started out as a childhood knack for entrepreneurship evolved into a thriving global business. 

The Importance of HR in Company Growth

Most business owners think that what truly keeps their operations afloat is their equipment, their systems, or even their strategies. It’s the system of IT managing the servers, operations, ensuring efficiency, and marketing that brings in the customers. But who is looking after the most important business asset of all, who takes care of the people?

North Central College cites in an article titled, The Importance of HR Management, that the HR department is essentially responsible for making employees feel safe, valued, and supported. 

Caribbean HR Solutions CEO Debra Fraser says that’s where Human Resources comes in. To answer what is HR management in simple terms, it’s the function that ensures people are not just managed, but supported, understood, and strategically aligned with the company’s goals. 

Debra explains, “Just like a machine needs a technician, your team needs someone who understands how people think, work, and respond to change.” Small companies might operate fine without dedicated HR leadership, especially in the early stages, but once a business begins to grow and the environment becomes more complex, human resource management becomes a non-negotiable.

Human resource management is more than just hiring and firing people. It’s about interpreting how changes in the business can affect people, guide communication, manage benefits, handle workplace issues, and shape employee experience. Without the unique insight HR provides, entrepreneurs can risk misalignments happening, low morale among employees, and burnout for both employees and themselves.

Even for Debra’s own HR company with a team of around 30, having an HR manager has been crucial. “She helps us see how certain decisions – good or bad – impact our people and what we can do in response.” Debra continues, “Without that, especially as a CEO or founder, you’re trying to do too much with a completely different mindset than your employees. That’s where problems start.”

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From Call Center Roots to Global HR Compliance Partner: Caribbean HR Solutions’ Evolution

When Caribbean HR Solutions launched, Debra Fraser’s goal was simple but impactful: make it easy for international companies, especially in New York, to set up seamless operations in the Caribbean. Originally operating in the BPO (Business Process Outsourcing) space, the company’s focus was on helping businesses access Jamaica’s friendly, service-driven workforce without the usual complications of “setting up shop” abroad. 

Over the past 15 years, Debra’s original goal and vision not only expanded but have matured into a full-fledged global HR compliance powerhouse. Today, the HR company assists companies all across North America, Europe, and beyond in hiring top-tier talent in the Caribbean across a wide range of roles, from accountants to legal analysts, software engineers to business analysts. Thankfully, today, where remote work is possible, geographical borders no longer limit talent acquisition. 

What sets her company apart from competitors is its precision, speed, and compliance expertise. Debra shares, “We never guess at salaries. We work with compensation partners, rely on real-time data, and maintain a curated candidate database that allows us to move fast and accurately.”

As the company grows, Debra is focusing on empowering more businesses to go global. By helping entrepreneurs and companies tap into passionate, skilled professionals beyond their borders. According to Debra, “we’re not just filling seats, we’re making meaningful matches between companies and talent – people who love the culture, love the work, and are committed to the mission.”

HR Advice from Debra Fraser

A common mistake that small business owners make is waiting too long before investing in HR. Many business owners assume they need to have over 50 employees before hiring an HR manager. By then, business owners would have already made costly mistakes in hiring, compliance, and team management. Even the NCPA (National Community Pharmacists Association) has stated that the people who work at your business are the biggest expense but the most valuable asset, furthering the importance of having a dedicated HR leader to support them. 

The solution, according to Debra Fraser, is fractional HR. “Fractional HR is the way to go,” she explains. “Don’t wait until you can afford a full-time HR person. Start with someone part-time, even 10 hours a week, or on-call. Just make sure the HR function exists from the start.”

Fractional professionals – whether in HR, accounting, or IT – give small businesses access to expert guidance without the full-time cost. Through this approach, small businesses can save money while simultaneously laying the groundwork for healthy team dynamics and sustainable company growth. Caribbean HR Solutions provides scalable HR support that is tailored to the unique needs of each client. As the company grows, so do the HR resources. 

For Debra, her HR philosophy goes deep. She encourages entrepreneurs to rethink their views of HR. To view it not as a “person” or a department, but as a framework of values. 

Debra says, “HR isn’t just a person. It’s a committed set of principles that shape how your company treats its people. If you value communication, community involvement, or fair pay, you need programs that reflect that.”

The biggest takeaway from Debra is not to wait until you build your HR foundation. Start small, but start smart. The earlier you align your people strategy with your company’s principles, the stronger the culture you build, and so will the business. 

Watch The Full Episode of An Entrepreneur’s Vibes featuring Debra Fraser!

Debra Fraser’s story is a masterclass in vision, resilience, and building meaningful HR strategies. Whether you’re a startup founder looking for guidance, a business leader navigating growth, or just passionate about people and purpose, this is an episode packed with insights you won’t want to miss!

And to elevate your business communication, proposals, and professional documents, look for The Write Direction. As North America’s trusted partner in technical and business writing, The Write Direction specializes in sharp, persuasive, and impactful writing. 

Connect with us today and discover our tailored writing solutions to help support your company’s growth with clarity and credibility. 

Debra Fraser [00:00:00] I wanna personally help other entrepreneurs to be able to leverage talent pools that are outside of their city or country to save money in it, but most of all, get people who are drinking the juice. They love the culture. They love what they do. We’re not just filling seats or adding bodies. We’re finding good matches for companies. 

Patricia [00:00:30] Welcome to An Entrepreneur’s Vibes, the podcast that gives insight into the minds of visionary entrepreneurs and business leaders, brought to you by The Write Direction, the leading professional and technical writing company based in North America. Each episode, we explore the stories and experiences of those who dare to dream, took the leap and built their own empires. Join us in uncovering the secrets to success and lessons learned along the way. So, if you’re just starting out your entrepreneurial journey or you’re already a seasoned business pro, you’ll find inspiration, knowledge, and good vibes right here. Today’s guest is the CEO of Caribbean HR Solutions, a company that has been transforming the HR landscape for over 15 years. With a mission to help businesses attract and retain top talent, our guest has worked with companies across North and South America, Europe, and the Caribbean, providing cutting edge HR outsourcing, executive recruitment, payroll solutions, and leadership training. But our guest’s story is more than just business. It’s about resilience, vision, and creating opportunities. Today, we’ll dive deep into her journey, how she built the company from the ground up, her insights on the evolving HR industry, and what it takes to successfully manage a business with a global reach. Welcome to the show, Debra Fraser! Hi, Debra! 

Debra Fraser [00:01:46] Thanks very much! Hi there, Patricia! Good to meet you! And the Write Direction! 

Patricia [00:01:50] It’s good to meet you! Of course, we’re so happy that you’re here. How are you doing today? 

Debra Fraser [00:01:55] Doing very well. It’s another sunshiny day in the Caribbean, so it’s a good start. 

Patricia [00:02:00] I love that! Well, I’d love to introduce you to our audience. Could you please take us back to the early days of your career? What was it that inspired you to become an entrepreneur? 

Debra Fraser [00:02:10] Patricia, I think it’s different for everybody. I just know that from I was a child, I always had a knack of starting businesses, like literally as a child. So, I remember our parents… I grew up in Toronto, Canada. My parents are Jamaican, so I count myself Jamaican by descent. Whether or not immigration says that, I say that. But when I was kid, our parents used to make us take piano lessons and all that. And I remember convincing other kids and convincing other parents to let me teach their kids, and charging them money, and having a pretty decent part-time job as a child. Or seeing something in the mall that I’d like to buy, buying one, recreating it myself, and then selling it to other people. So, I really do believe that people… I think that’s a gift. Like, either you’re born with that natural inclination. You can learn it, but there’s definitely people like me who are just born to do business. 

Patricia [00:03:09] That’s amazing! So, you just were entrepreneurial from the beginning. That’s amazing to hear, and I do believe. I’m such a believer of that statement that sometimes you’re just born with innate talent. And could you tell us what was the defining moment that led you to start a company after all the entrepreneurial journeys that you’ve begun since you were a kid? 

Debra Fraser [00:03:29] Funny, I actually moved to the Caribbean on a short-term missionary stint. And at the end of the term, I was heading back to Toronto where I had started to work in HR. And I ended up staying here and working for a company called Vistaprint. And I kind of like to give credit to whoever’s impacted my life. And in that regard, Vistaprint as a company decided that the labor in Montego Bay, Jamaica, with the hotels that they had stayed in for their vision sessions, they actually fell in love with the labor here, and the warm smiles, and the hospitality, and decided to open up a contact center. So, I had worked with them as their head of HR, a job I could have never got if I was still in Toronto, and then ended up being part of the dog and pony show for the government. So, the government of each country always tries to attract investors. So, I had like a front row seat in just kind of selling Jamaica and selling the talent. And eventually, I opened my own business that would help other companies enter the Caribbean, I would help them with getting compensation right, which was a big issue back then, finding space, and then recruiting talent. And that’s how Caribbean HR Solutions got started. 

Patricia [00:04:46] That’s amazing, but could you tell us what was it about HR as an industry specifically, what was it that drew you to this field? 

Debra Fraser [00:04:54] To be honest? I wanted to be a counselor. So, I figured I was always into self-help. I figured out I’d be a counselor, but my degree was in theology. So, my pathway, I went to school to answer questions about philosophy, about God, about life, and all of that. And when I came out with a degree in theology, I really couldn’t get a job. There wasn’t a whole lot of jobs, and I needed to work and earn quickly. So, my next thing was, why not just do HR? Because it’s kind of like the people helping thing within a business, and then I just evolved from there. 

Patricia [00:05:36] [00:05:36]Could you share with us some of the biggest challenges that you faced in the early years of building your business? [4.7s]

Debra Fraser [00:05:42] [00:05:42]Yeah, for sure. So, year five, I’ll just be very transparent, we were gonna close. And I tell all the new employees that too. We started out as a contact center. So, we’d help investors to kind of get into the BPO industry, hiring customer service agents who would take calls. And then, I have a [18.2s] [00:06:00]guest with relationship [0.5s] [00:06:03]management. And so, I got a bunch of clients, and a lot of other people started, and they didn’t get any clients, but I got a bunch. But I wasn’t good, like, on the finance piece or even on the ops piece. So, that made a big deal in terms of how successful we were. So, we had clients, but the contracts were actually costing us. So, at the end of five years, I was like, “Oh my gosh! I got to close.” So, that wasn a big learning experience, but I think I did learn that I can’t move forward without someone else looking at the finances, and I also had to make sure I made investments and getting people who are experts on the ops side as well. So, I made those changes, and then, regrouped and started to do HR which was something that was very natural to me, and it took off from there, and we’ve been doing HR for 10 years. [53.9s]

Patricia [00:06:57] 10 years? 

[00:06:58] Yeah! [00:06:58]It just like itself out. [1.2s] It did very, very well. 

Patricia [00:07:02] That’s amazing, because I feel like you really acted, analyzed, and adjusted based on the setbacks. And I wanted to ask you, like, [00:07:09]how did you navigate through that and stay motivated? Because you are leading a business and a lot of people are, you know, leaning on you, essentially. So, what motivated you to keep going? [10.2s]

Debra Fraser [00:07:20] [00:07:20]One of the key things was, like, I’m a big believer in self-development. Always have. Like, I talked to you about self-help books and all that. I’m very in tune with my own gifts and my gaps. At least I always try to be. So, I had enrolled in an MBA program. And during that MBA program, like the one thing I really got out of that was that I will give up unless there’s somebody else that’s going to get hurt by me giving up. So, I’m motivated by serving others, like very, very strong. And it’s weird, because everyone else in my class, we did this assessment, and they all turned out differently. So, if it’s just for myself, I won’t stick it out. But if it was for somebody else, I’m 150% there. So, what I did is I just put a board, a shareholders group together. So, there are friends and family who I respect. They invested very little into the company, but the token still was enough, and they’re on the documents. It was enough to say, “Okay, I’m working for these people.” So, that really helped me. Like, when things got really tough, I kept going back, getting back in the ring, because I didn’t want to disappoint these people. So, I think you have to kind of work out your own psychology, like what makes you tick, and I was grateful that I kind of knew that and was able to put that group of shareholders team in, and they’re still, there’s new shareholders, of course, but those people are still on our shareholders group and still motivate me to keep going. [90.9s]

Patricia [00:08:52] That’s amazing. I think, like, what really makes a great leader is being able to think fast and on your feet. I really wanted to talk about how important the HR industry is. So, for our listeners out there who may not understand why there is a need for HR, [00:09:05]could you tell us in like simple terms what HR is, why it’s important? [3.6s]

Debra Fraser [00:09:10] [00:09:10]If you don’t have a background in HR, you have the background in operations, in IT, in sales and marketing, in something, and there’s always somebody whose main role it is to take care of a certain function or a certain equipment. For example, IT looks over the server equipment. Or if you’re in a factory, there’s somebody who’s making sure that factory keeps working. But who’s really looking out for the people who are managing the factory and managing the IT equipment? There’s gotta be somebody who’s looking at how does, not this machine, but this person work? How do people think? So, I think most companies can get by for, you know, when they have 20, 30, 40 employees maybe, but eventually, you’re gonna have to specialize or you’re gonna have issues. If you have a machine going, and there’s no one who knows how to fix it, you’re going to have to go out eventually and find somebody who can fix it,and it’s the same thing with people. So, HR is really important, especially the more complex your environment gets or your company gets. You need somebody who’s always telling you, “Okay, this thing that happened, this is how it’s impacting people. Here’s what we can do to respond to that.” So, it’s really, really crucial. And I’m always thinking about our own, like we have around 30 people in our organization, and we have an HR manager. And that’s what she does for us constantly is say, “Okay, this great thing or this not so great thing happened in the company. Here’s a psychology of how people are thinking. Here’s how it affects their benefits, or what we can do with overtime, or what need to do with communication.” Like, if you don’t have that, and you’re the entrepreneur, and you’re trying to do that yourself, when your mentality is different than everyone else’s, you’re gonna fall into problems. So yeah, HR is super important. [105.8s]

Patricia [00:10:57] [00:10:57]That’s a really great explanation. And I love what you said about, like, HR managing, like how people are. Because in a business, you’re always, you know, thinking about, “How’s our production doing? How’s our sales doing?” But like, the HR and from what I’m getting from you is like, “How are our people? How are the laborers? Are they being taken care of?” So, I think that’s really amazing. [19.9s] And as the expert here, [00:11:20]could you share with us what you think are some of company’s biggest mistakes when hiring and managing talent? [5.9s]

Debra Fraser [00:11:27] [00:11:27]And I’m going to speak from my experience with working with clients. When they first come to us, they’re like, they have this kind of accounting way of growing. So, typically when a client is coming to the Caribbean, it’s because they want to expand their team, but in a cost-effective way. For example, Vistaprint, who has, I think there’s two or three Vistaprint type companies still here in the Montego Bay area specifically. They came here because they wanted to offer a lot of customer service to each of their clients who are doing business cards at the time online, and this was a way that they could afford to do it. So, not that they made the mistake, but companies typically will say, “Okay, we need,” for example, “10 customer service people and one supervisor.” So, they’ll go ahead and put an ad out for 10 customer services agents and one supervisor at the same time. That’s a big mistake. It’s kind of like you’re building a house and you’re forgetting to build that foundation. So, leadership has to be built in advance. So, you have to get a strong leader in advance, even though they’re much more expensive, right? But you want that leader to like be drinking the juice, understand the corporate mission, the vision, understand what the culture is, and then you can hire line staff who will then feed off of that leader and get the vision and the mission, how you do things in the company, and that works. But I just see a lot of companies kind of like not thinking through the advanced planning like of getting the leaders in the boat first, which is a big mistake. So, that’s one, and I’d also just say, I keep going back to leadership, but for example, in the Caribbean, if they’re going to open a new office, you need to make sure that you take time to get that one first leader. If it’s a general manager or an ops manager, that person has to be like right on, because if not, if they check all the boxes with skills and education, but they don’t get the vibe of the people, they don’t give the people the amount of respect or access to them, because they have a level of discomfort with that perhaps, then the whole thing goes sour, and we get calls to rehire a leader. So, I’d say that the biggest mistakes are really in leadership. [145.1s]

Patricia [00:13:54] So, I think, like, for longevity companies really want to have that strong foundational staff. It’s important to invest in the right people and, you know, because they really set the tone and the culture of your staff essentially. So, you can’t just like always take the most cost-effective option especially when it comes to your staff. [00:14:13]How important would you say is employee engagement in retaining top talent, and what strategies do you recommend? [5.7s]

Debra Fraser [00:14:20] [00:14:20]I always like to liken it onto machinery or equipment, like how important it is for you to keep your machines going. It’s like everything. You don’t want that to break down. So, I think there are some best practices that you can emulate to get on top of the issue of losing key talent. Talent needs to see a future all the time. More recently, it’s become extremely clear to me, especially when your team, they’re not doing transactional stuff. You know what I mean? They’re not like handling a call or just doing bookkeeping. When they’re doing other things that are less transactional and more, they have to be in tune with what the company’s specific offering is. They need to see a pathway, right? They need see where the company is going and whether that’s a great story, or if you’re telling them the story of the challenge you’re going through as a company, you have to keep them up to date. And they also have to see what are they gonna look like in the next few years? Because I find a lot of talent will leave a great job, because they’re going to a lesser job that has a bigger opportunity. So lesser pay, further away from home, but at least there’s a pathway for them to get where they want to go. What entrepreneurs can do if you’re relying on some key talent is to make sure you’re listening, right? Like, ask them where they want to be. Tell them straight up, like, “There is no place for you here, so maybe we’ll pay you a little extra to stay on for longer.” Or what I’ve done is sometimes I’ve customized, like, the vision has changed, because I have a key person who’s valuable. I’m loyal to them, they’re loyal to me. We want them to do yellow, they want to do red, and I’ve compromised and we’ve done orange in between. So, they’re actually kind of changing the direction of the company, but they’re so key to us that it’s worth it. And I actually trust their judgment that maybe we should. I’m willing to take a risk that orange is probably better than my yellow. So, if you’re not willing to, like, really get into the heads of your key talents, then eventually, there’s a high risk that you can go into separate directions, right? Just because you didn’t know. So, yeah. [141.9s]

Patricia [00:16:42] Well, since we’re in the topic, I just wanted to ask you, [00:16:46]is there a set of characteristics that you see that makes you say this person is top talent or this person’s going to be a key person in this company? Is there something specific that you find in these people? [10.6s] We might have listeners out here who are trying to get hired, and want to get some tips, and want to embody that key person. So, [00:17:04]is there something that you find in these people that make you say, okay, this is a top talent person? [4.1s]

Debra Fraser [00:17:09] [00:17:09]Yeah, definitely. So, they want to do what the company is doing. So, I’ll use my own company as an example, like from the interview, and then if not from the interview, at least from the first couple of months when they’re on the job, you can tell if they really wanted to do HR in our style. And our style is very client-focused, less about what the Ministry of Labor dictates and more about creativity, right? So, if an HR person wants to kind of be on the other side of that, of just kind of enforcing policies and all that stuff, I’ll see that very quickly, and that’s not key talent for me. It’s really important that you see what it is that we’re doing, how we’re doing it, and you love it. So, if you’re out there, and you’re looking for a job, it really starts with you being honest with what you want. And everyone compromises, right? But if you’re in between jobs, it’s an opportunity for you to kind of step back and say, I’m gonna put out five resumes tomorrow, but I’m not gonna put it into five jobs that I know that I don’t like, or I don’ like what the company is doing. I’m actually gonna apply for five jobs that I know I would love, right? Once you get into one of those, you’re gonna find the leadership is gonna notice that you really love what you do, and they’ll work with you more, right? It’s better for me to invest time in somebody that I know loves being here and loves what they do than for me to invest time with someone who just does it, they do a good job, but they don’t really like it. I already know eventually you’re gonna go. So, why would I develop you, right? So yeah, look for what you really love. [96.7s]

Patricia [00:18:47] So, it’s a two-way street. The business has to invest in the person. And you, as someone seeking the job, has to invest time, and you really have to kind of love and at least have some sort of passion in what you’re doing, so that you can grow with the business. I think that’s eventually what makes it work long term for a lot of people. And I wanted to talk more about the company. So, [00:19:13]It started with a vision. I wanted to ask you how has that vision evolved over the past 15 years? [7.3s]

Debra Fraser [00:19:22] [00:19:22]I was saying earlier that we started as a call center in the BPO industry. You know, we wanted to make it so seamless for somebody, for example, in New York to be able to have people here handling the calls for their business. We didn’t want them to have any issues with opening up shop here and not knowing where to find people. That was our vision. It’s evolved now, but it’s still along the same veins. Patricia, when you introduce the company, you mentioned like the services that we offer, but our number one service is as a global staffing firm. So, companies that want to hire anything, maybe they need accountants, or they need legal officers, legal analysts, or business analysts, or project managers. If it can be done remotely, then we want to make it seamless for them. That’s the theme, for them to be able to access that talent anywhere in the Caribbean region, and for them save a lot of money doing that, and to feel really good about it. So, our clients feel good that they’ve opened up a team of 5 or 10, 50 or 70 people, and they have a remote team that’s in the Carribean. They feel really about that, because yeah, they’re saving money, but they’re also kind of attached to the employees and the whole vibe in the carribean. So, that’s what we do now which is so much different than trying to be a call center, so it’s really evolved. [81.7s]

Patricia [00:20:45] And I know we touched base earlier, I did say it in my intro some of the specific services Caribbean HR Solutions offer, but [00:20:52]could you tell me specifically, like, the services or approaches that you offer that set you apart in the industry? [5.6s]

Debra Fraser [00:20:58] [00:20:58]Yeah, I think as a global employer, we can do a better job than some of the other Employer of Records companies out there, because we have [11.4s] [00:21:10]depth in compensation. [0.3s] [00:21:11]So, we have partnerships, again, back to building relationships, right? So, there’s a compensation firm that we distribute here in the Caribbean. So, we know the ins and outs of what people are getting paid in different industries. So, you can imagine if you wanted to find 5 graphic designers here, and you called another agency, they might be, like, guessing at the salary, and we never guess, because we have the facts. We subscribed and participated in surveys to make sure our clients know what to pay people. That’s one thing. Also, because we’re a recruiting firm, we are able to find people super fast. Like, we’ve had a database of candidates for years that’s really mature and curated. So, for example, a client is asking for computer engineers, and we already have done those types of fills. So, we have a reservoir of candidates to reach out to. So, those kinds of things kind of make us operate really fast and really accurate. Like, we want real data that’s fresh and accurate, so that our clients don’t have to guess about what to pay people. They don’t to wait to find staff, and they really appreciate that. Our HR folks as well, we have professional HR people, and we have relationships with law firms, so that if there’s any compliance issue, we’ve had clients for 15 years now, 10 years on the HR space, we’re able to really get to the bottom of issues very quickly and keep our clients compliant. So yeah, I think we have a lot of benefits. [94.4s]

Patricia [00:22:46] I love that. And you know what? Running a company for 15 years is an amazing feat. I’d love to hear from you, [00:22:53]what’s next for you? And what future goals are you most excited about? [5.2s]

Debra Fraser [00:22:59] [00:22:59]Globalization! Like, we are partners in globalization. So, globalization, we are seeing it every day more and more. It’s like you can be living anywhere in the world and working for a company that’s on the other side of the world, right? I think both of us are case in points, and a bunch of my staff are from other countries, and they’re working with us here, pushing a company that’s pushing Caribbean labor to the front. So, we have folks working in India. We have folks in Canada. We have for folks in Guyana. And we only have 30 people. So, we want to help other companies to be able to do that, and I want to personally help other entrepreneurs to be to leverage talent pools that are outside of their city or country to save money in it, but most of all, get people who are drinking the juice. They love the culture. They love what they do. We’re not just filling seats or adding bodies. We’re finding good matches for companies. So yeah, that’s what I’ll say on that. [60.2s]

Patricia [00:24:00] I mean, it is an amazing time we’re living in, where remote work is possible, and you’re able to do this amazing work that you do with your company and bringing great talent across the globe. And since we’re talking about globalization, I wanted to ask, like, [00:24:14]how do you effectively manage a business that has multiple locations worldwide?[3.8s]

Debra Fraser [00:24:19] [00:24:19]I would say that’s a combination of technology and touch points. So, TNT, I’m gonna have to coin that phrase. So, impossible to do without technology, and that’s why it wasn’t done earlier, right? That’s why getting so popular now. We have all these boards and all these communication tools that link people up. So, there’s gotta be a budget for it and a commitment to building systems and maintaining those systems. But then, why do you have those systems? It’s in order to have people connect. So, you have to connect more if somebody’s further, and further, and farther away. So, and this is where HR can come up with a program touch point. So, whether or not that’s getting formalizing performance feedback, or getting people into general meetings. So, for example, our company meets every month at least once to have have like a town hall, or a staff meeting, or facilitating managers and teams to get together on these platforms on a regular basis. To me, that’s the two key things is to make sure you have the technology and then make sure you have a program touch point, so no one’s left out, everyone’s engaged. [70.3s]

Patricia [00:25:31] That’s amazing. I feel like some businesses are still a bit iffy about remote work, but that’s one thing earlier that you said that I think is a really great thing, is that we’re overly communicative because of the distance, because we’re in different locations. Now, we open up the communication and airwaves even more, because you know, you don’t want to leave anything to be open to miscommunication, and I think that’s a really good thing. And one more thing is company culture. So, it’s hard when it’s different in person, it’s different online. So, I wanted to ask you, [00:26:01]how do you ensure a consistent company culture when teams are spread across various locations? [5.2s]

Debra Fraser [00:26:08] [00:26:08]Yeah, it’s just defining it, right? Like, defining it in such a super clear way, along with the behaviors that are expected, which is where I think culturally that it can go a little bit off, but it’s taking that extra time to say, “Okay, our culture is X, and this is how it’s lived out.” Right? So that’s the work to be done, and that’s what you’re discussing with employees and hearing what they have to say about that. So yeah, it’s just clarity. We get a lot of requests from clients to help define their culture, and that’s great, because really drinking the juice is buying into the culture and agreeing with it, right? And the work comes from the management to make sure that they’re actually keeping in line, keeping in step with what they’ve defined as the culture as well. [46.9s]

Patricia [00:26:56] And to some of our listeners out there who would probably want to take a similar route to you and take inspiration from you, could you share [00:27:03]what advice would you give to entrepreneurs looking to expand their businesses beyond their home country? [6.1s]

Debra Fraser [00:27:10] [00:27:10]Use an Employer of Record like us. I’m one of a million, but if I’m expanding to another country, I’m not gonna do it on my own without someone who’s already there, already licensed, already compliant, already has done it a hundred times. Because number one, there’s no guesswork. When you’re expanding to another country, you cannot afford to get it wrong. You can’t afford to go and get the pay wrong or to not be able to find people that you thought were there. So, just use a professional who can tell you if the labor does exist and how much labor you can access at the price that you’re willing to pay. The other thing is it helps you to move faster. So, I know that a client can come to me and say, “Okay, I need three people ASAP.” I can respond saying, “I can give you two tomorrow and one on Friday, or I can give you zero, or I can give whatever.” You can hit your timelines if you’re using an Employer of Record. Or if you are going to do it yourself, it’s going to take you way too long. And the other thing is just to make sure to use an Employer of Record, so that you can save money. So, I have clients as well that are paying, like, very competitively. That’s part of their mantra. And I have other clients who can’t afford to do that. But you know what you can afford, give that to an Employer of Record, and let them make sure that they’re hitting your cost points and getting the talent profile that you want. So, my biggest advice would be to make sure take the guesswork out of it, use a professional who’s done it for a while, don’t take a risk on getting the right talent in your organization. It’s just not worth it. It’s costly. Not worth it. [94.1s]

Patricia [00:28:45] That’s great advice and kind of in line with what you said earlier about not hiring a staff without a leader yet. So, it’s kind of like the same but in a macro level of having an expert there, ready to help you before you expand. And since we’re in the topic of advice and expansion, so to speak, [00:29:03]maybe a lot of businesses have a hard time expanding, especially with their staff, because they struggle with a high employee turnover, what advice would you give those businesses struggling with that? [9.7s]

Debra Fraser [00:29:14] [00:29:14]We do this all the time. If I could sum it up in one word, I would just say, listen. And I don’t mean sit there and just like listen. I mean like you wanna know what’s driving the attrition, right? And trust me, the higher up in the organization you go, you’re often disconnected from the real reason. So, don’t assume. So, you can listen through things like surveys, which HR, that’s what we do. So, we’ll design a survey that’s going after what we know are the key levers of retention. So, do a survey, and they can be very, very fast on your cell phone nowadays in a few minutes, and do them all the time so you can see the movement. What’s making people satisfied or driving dissatisfaction is often just related to something that has been done in the company, and maybe you had no idea that it was driving people to be dissatisfied. The other thing is, is to let your middle managers give them the responsibility of retaining the employees. Here’s what happens. You hire all this line staff, then you hire managers, and then when line staff leaves, it’s a company problem. No! Most people leave because of a manager, right? So, give the manager authority and the responsibility to check in and to report on retention. They’re the ones who should be doing the one-to-one check-ins and surveys. Otherwise, you’re gonna say, “Well, there’s a turnover problem, and that’s HR’s problem.” HR doesn’t manage your staff, you manage your stuff. And they may have joined, because they thought you were cool, or that you’re with them, and you’re fair, and you’ll develop them. And if you’re not doing those things, they’re going to score you low and say that they’re looking. So, those are the two things I would say to do. [97.2s]

Patricia [00:30:52] [00:30:52]And what would you say can companies do to attract top talent in an increasingly competitive job market? [6.2s]

Debra Fraser [00:30:59] [00:30:59]I could answer this so many ways, but I just, for the sake of the entrepreneur, I will answer it in a risky way. If you remember through, before COVID, when terrorism was a big thing in the news, and if you remember how there are companies that were using social media to recruit young people to basically do bad things, but they were successful in recruiting, right? The reason they were successful is because they were very honest and clear about what they wanted to do. Whether you’re clear about doing good or evil, you have to be clear. If you want to reach people to sign up, you’ve got to tell them what they’re signing up for. And sometimes I think as entrepreneurs that you want a pretty up, like, you know, make your thing look really good, but people see through that. They want to hear an honest voice that says, “We’re not like these guys, really. This is who we really are.” And if you can say that really loud, then you will attract people to your organization, because it’s kind of like you see somebody who’s not very good looking, and they have a really great looking partner. There’s somebody for everybody. It’s kind of a numbers game. So, just kind of scream what you do. And I would say the other alternative is, what companies come to us to do is to leverage our brand. So, we have an excellent brand in the market. We had a client come to us that we’re looking for literally thousands of customer service agents, and they knew that they had no name, brand recognition, no history, no nothing. So, they worked with us. We helped them to, they ran their ads through us. So, that’s an arrangement that we had with them, and it worked. So, they superseded their number of 2000, and we were happy to leverage our brand as an employer and as a recruiting firm. So, that’s what you can do. If you don’t have the time and the wherewithal to kind of, like, create this great brand and scream it constantly, then leverage somebody else’s brand, and use a recruiting firm like ours, and they’ll get it done for you. [119.7s]

Patricia [00:32:59] I really wanted to ask, like, the flip side of this question, if that’s okay. Because I’m sure you’ve met through a lot of different people ,and I wanted to ask you, like, on the flipside, especially [00:33:09]for people out there who are looking for a job, like, what would set them apart in a competitive job market? Like, if they’re the talent looking to be seen? [7.8s]

Debra Fraser [00:33:19] Like, how can they differentiate themselves? Is that what you mean?

Patricia [00:33:22] What would set them apart, yes. 

Debra Fraser [00:33:25] [00:33:25]I think it’s different for small companies than it is for large companies. Large companies are gonna rely a lot more on fixed processes that you have to, you know, like hoops that you had to jump through. And companies are automating that stuff now. So, it’s kind of like a larger company gotta get your resume, saying exactly the keywords that their Recruiting ATS system has programmed to pick up in order to pass you on to the next level. By the time you get to an interview, What I would say to you, to anyone looking for a job, is if you can get to the interview stage, there’s a job description, so make sure that you just be honest and call out the skills that you have, but it’s gonna also come down to can you build a rapport with a hiring manager? Because let me tell you, if you’re a large company, and you have 10 people who all pass a test, and they’re all, like, scoring about the same in the interview, it’s going to come down to someone who they believe that they can work well with. Because remember, you’re working 8, 9, 10 hours a day with these people. At the end of the day, it is better that they’re working with people who they get along with, because that’s gonna impact their quality of life and yours. So, I don’t think the answer is faking it. I think the is you wanna be yourself as much as possible, so that they can know if you’re the person that’s going to be right for that environment or not. And the nots are as important as the yeses, right? Otherwise, you could end up in a situation where they’re hiring you, because you have the skills, but they don’t really like working with you. Wouldn’t you rather go work somewhere else where people know kind of your idiosyncrasies and kind of what you like, and what you don’t like, and you’ll be happier, and you work harder, and likely progress more because of that. [101.1s]

Patricia [00:35:07] [00:35:07]I think that’s really great advice, and I think it’s a testament to the great work that you guys do, because you really match people with the right jobs and vice versa. Because like you said earlier, there is someone for everyone, and it’s kind of the same for the job. Like, you really have to, like, have the same mindset with everyone else in the company to make it work, to achieve that longevity and success. So, thank you for that insight. [23.5s] On the other hand, again, [00:35:33]how can small businesses implement effective HR strategies even with limited resources? [5.1s]

Debra Fraser [00:35:39] [00:35:39]So, fractional HR is the way to go. We’ve seen that just, like, explode in terms of using fractional professionals. So, typically a company will wait till they have around 50 employees to look at having an HR person come on, and you’ve made so many mistakes by then. I mean, those are your formative years. So, it’s better if you just get someone who’s a fractional HR person, who can work with you, for example, for 10 hours a week, or on call, or a week every month, whatever it is, however you divide that fraction, but it’s better that you start early on in terms of filling that function, so that there is an HR effort in your organization. So, don’t wait until you can afford a full-time person. And that’s what we do. Like, we have our employees who are servicing different clients according to how much of an HR support or HR program the client wants. And that changes, and as that changes, and it gets more demanding, we pull more resources or we give them a whole person. But it’s a great time now, Patricia, because, I mean, if I were to start all over again, I would use fractional professionals way earlier in the game. I would have had a fractional accountant, and then I would’ve had a fractional HR person too. I would start it that way. Fractional IT has kind of been around forever, because you typically outsource it, and that’s a fraction, right? So, yeah, I think it’s a great thing for people to use.[91.0s]

Patricia [00:37:11] [00:37:11]And what would you say is like the biggest piece of HR advice you wish more companies would follow? [6.1s]

Debra Fraser [00:37:18] [00:37:18]I think entrepreneurs and business owners, they look at HR as a person. Have you heard the term like “HR lady”? They look at HR as a person, and they wanna take care of their HR manager and all that stuff. But HR really isn’t a person, it’s really a committed set of principles that you have that you use to create programs that can impact people, right? So, if you as a leader or a leadership team believe in treating employees a certain way, believe in impacting your environment a certain way, whether that’s in terms of being green or working with NGOs, if you believe in communication, how it’s really important to make people feel happy, all of those things, like things that are embedded in your culture, they’re all programs. You just don’t say them. Like, if you believe in helping charitable institutions, there’s got to be like a committed set of programs and activities that you’re going to do to prove that or that, you know, that’s an opportunity to express that part. And the same thing if you really believe in paying people x amount above the median, so the middle, then that means that your HR and compensation person has to get ready, get busy at assessing the market all the time, doing raises maybe once or maybe twice a year, depends on how you do it, getting creative in that regard. But it’s like, the best advice I would say is just to make sure that as a business owner, don’t look at the person, make sure HR has a charge to find ways to embody or to make real what your principles are, and that will keep, give them a vision and a roadmap to go down, and it’s likely exactly what your employees at the bottom and right to the top, they meet. They’re going to need that. So, yeah! [116.2s]

Patricia [00:39:16] That’s amazing advice. So, business owners should really set the tone and let HR help them embody that, so that the rest of the staff can also follow through, so that they can all, you know, effectively do their mission and see their vision clearly. So, earlier you were talking about like the importance of leadership and personal self growth, I wanted to ask you, [00:39:38]how do you personally continue to grow as a leader in your industry? [3.4s]

Debra Fraser [00:39:42] [00:39:42]Oh my gosh, so I’m like a textbook kind of girl, right? I’m not like these younger people who learn new things so quickly. So, I still take courses, like I always have. I believe in that. I’m taking one right now. I’ll give a plug to The Strategic Coach system by Dan Sullivan. So, I fly back to Toronto every now and then. It’s taking me through like, you know, the mindset of successful entrepreneurs. So, I think there’s a mindset of all entrepreneurs, but there are certain things that actually help to make us successful. That’s what I’m doing now, but before, just being conscious of my gaps with financial analysis and all that stuff. I took a course from Yale University, professional development on financial management and financial reports. So, how do you know what’s to develop? It’s listening again. A lot of that comes back to listening. Like, how do, you know, what your gaps are? How do you what you don’t know? And that is a keen listening ear. So, I listen to, we have a board that’s in place. I keenly listen and ask questions about, you know, if I could have another skill that would really help the company, what would that be? And I listen them. And I also listen to my HR who represents the voice of our staff. What do I need to do differently? I recently learned that when I’m communicating, I’m an entrepreneur, so I’m very optimistic, and I’m communicating all this optimism even when we’re going through a lean period, and that can be construed as being disingenuous, and I just never knew that. I’m, like, my role is to make sure I tell them about, you know, what the end point is going to be when they, you know, I need to be a little bit more balanced. So, I would say the key is to have some trusted voices who can tell you, “Okay, here’s some gaps that you can develop yourself in.” And then, that could be a course. It could be getting a mentor. It can be something that you can control on your own, but definitely always listen out for it. [121.7s]

Patricia [00:41:44] That’s amazing. Constant learning, like it really never stops. I think that’s, like, a really great thing about being a leader. You can’t ever think that, “Okay, I’ve reached this, and I’m happy with this.” You constantly have to learn. Listen to your people. Be willing to learn, and be open to change, you know, because everything changes in every industry. So, I think, that’s a really good advice. Something that you said earlier really stood out to me. I just wanted to ask, cause you said, HR is the voice of people. I wanted to ask, because I think this is also something that a lot of people question. [00:42:18]Does HR, do they represent the company, or do they represent the staff, or is it a little bit of both? [5.1s]

[00:42:24] [00:42:24]I’m glad you asked that! Because that’s a constant struggle. And I actually have some of my clients calling from overseas to say, you know, my HR lady is way too much on the staff side. You know, I get that complaint a lot. And then, you now, they’re asking me for my advice, and I’m giving them. I’ll give you that advice that I gave to them is that really, the people didn’t hire the HR person, and that’s just a fact. So, the Ministry of Labor didn’t offer a job to the HR lady, the HR person, and the staff didn’t get together like they do with unions and get enough money together to hire an HR person. The HR person is working for the company, and that is completely unambiguous. It’s completely unambiguous. You know, sometimes that’s just a firm conversation every time you onboard an HR Person, is to just remind them of that. Because by nature, it’s confusing sometimes. The HR person is in between the management and the staff, and then they feel like they want to side with the staff, because a lot of the times the staff is right. Like, staff aren’t asking for ridiculous things most of the time, right? But that it really takes a skilled HR leader to be able to communicate those needs to the management team and also to be able to articulate back to the staff, “This is why you can’t get this.” You know? Typically there’s leaders who would love to be able to give staff everything that they ask for, but it’s not their dime either. They’re not hired by the staff. They’re hired by the shareholders or their boss who’s trying to make sure the company has longevity, so all the HR people that I know are so good at articulating the business needs and where the business life is to the staff, and they’re extremely great at knowing what of the staff’s concerns ought to go up. It’s timing, right? It’s like the staff wants XYZ, you bring one at a time, or you bring it when it’s a good time. So, it’s magic when you have a great HR person, because they get things done. They bring people together. So, yeah. [134.7s]

Patricia [00:44:40] Right! I think that’s, like, really what they’re meant to do, bringing people together, making sure there’s cohesion within the company, especially if it’s a large organization. Like, it’s really needed to have that balance, that middle person. That’s a really important part of a company and a business. I wanted to ask you now, like, [00:44:58]how do you balance being a CEO with other aspects of your life? [3.5s]

[00:45:02] [00:45:02]There’s no balance. I don’t think. I agree with, I think it was Steve Jobs who was saying that there’s no balance. Like, it just isn’t. There’s one thing that I use to feel balance, and I’ve done this for years, and years, and the years. I have a one pager that I live by. So, on Sunday nights, I have the habit of getting a blank sheet of paper. I draw a circle right in the center of it, I put “spirit,” and I draw another circle, and I put “physical,” and then I draw another circle that captures my work. And then of course, I have a side hustle with my family. I have to draw a circle for that, but right in the middle is spiritual wellness. So, I have this goal, okay, what am I gonna do over the next 30 days or the next week in order to, spiritual goals that I have, whether that might be, I don’t know, for some people, maybe that’s meditation or to attend a conference or something. I find that things that change in your spiritual life, they manifest through your physical, through your social, through your family, through your work. So, it’s kind of like a change there is kind of center. So, I put something right in the middle of the paper every single month on how I’m looking about my spiritual life. And then that next one about physical, there’s always something. So, I can get caught up in work and then never exercise and always say, “Okay, I’m going to go for that walk.” I walk, I don’t run. I’m gonna go for the walk another day, and then end up reaching the end of the month and never having walked. So, I put it right down there. I’m like, “I need to walk three times every week. That’s my goal.” And then, I move on to the business, and I’m, like, “What’s the most important things I have to get done this month?” There’ll be a few things that’s like non-negotiable. They have to be done. I’m doing them first, and they’re in that circle. So, I have one page that I could just pin up on my desk or I fold it and put it in my little notebook, and that’s my guide, and that helps me to feel balanced, because I know I’ve done my best to work on all the areas of my life. And when I look back, I’m like, yeah, it’s almost like a vision board, because you’re thinking in advance how you want the month to play out or what you want to achieve, and then it comes to pass, right? So, my challenge in being balanced is I used to fill that page, that page used to be, like, so dense. And now, I’m getting, like, some point where I’m like, I understand what the most important things are. So, there’s a lot of white space in the paper and just really important priorities on there. So, that’s how I feel balanced.[154.4s]

Patricia [00:47:38] [00:47:38]I love that answer, and you were so real when you said there is no balance. Because a lot of people, you know, like, you try obviously, but there are going to be days where your focus is going to more on the business. Maybe one day, your focus is gonna be more on your family. But across the board, because I’ve spoken with a lot of CEOs as well, is that they focus on themselves, because CEOs like yourself, leaders, you are in charge of a lot people’s lives, and there are a lot moving parts. It can be very overwhelming. I think what I’m understanding is the most important thing is to give to yourself first before you can give to others. And I think that’s an amazing, amazing practice that you do. And this is like a monthly thing that you do? [39.9s]

Debra Fraser [00:48:20] [00:48:20]It’s a monthly thing when I do the whole sheet of paper. And then the week, I break it down. I’m like I’m circling on that paper. Like, either using a highlighter or a circle to say these are the ones that I’m working on this week, and I just keep referring to them. Works for me. Everybody’s got something different [14.3s]

Patricia [00:48:36] That’s amazing. And could you share with us, like, [00:48:38]what are the most important leadership qualities that helped you succeed? [4.2s]

Debra Fraser [00:48:44] [00:48:44]I understand two strengths that I have. One is relationship management or developing relationships and the other one is developing middle managers. I used to say I’m good at developing leaders, but I’m not. I have learned that in the last few years that the level that I can develop you is from line staff to manager. I’m extremely good at that. And every leader needs to know how to develop people. Like, there’s just some principles there and some practices that people are going to look at you and say, “I want to be like you.” Right? “How can I get to CEO, or entrepreneur, or whatever?” And if you’re not helping people and pulling people up, then it’s just not a good vibe. Like, you got to be seen as somebody who’s moving people up. So, that’s something that I think is important. And the other thing is just relationships. That’s how I started the business, was leveraging relationships. I haven’t arrived, so I’m learning more that there’s certain times when I kind of dropped the ball on it. So, I want to get better at being more consistent, but those are the two leadership qualities that I personally have leveraged. I mean, to the point where when our company is in dire need of something, you know, some people run to kind of draft new processes or create new things. I’m like leveraging my relationships, and they’ve never failed. So, that’s something that you have to farm and cultivate. So, those are the two areas that I think are leadership qualities that really have helped me out through the years to succeed. [92.0s]

Patricia [00:50:17] That’s amazing. Thank you so much, Debra. You’ve provided us with so much advice, but just before I let you go, I wanted to ask, [00:50:23]what are some final words of wisdom you would like to share with aspiring entrepreneurs and business leaders that might be listening to us today? [6.3s]

Debra Fraser [00:50:30] [00:50:30]So, if I could impact other entrepreneurs, I would say that they should be very cognizant and self-aware of their purpose. And when I say that, I mean that whatever a business is doing is solving a problem, right? It’s filling a gap or it’s solving a problem in the community, in the larger community. And i know that people who are not entrepreneurs don’t see it that way. They see more like, “Oh, an entrepreneur or a ceo is in it for the money, because they’re making so much more money.” That’s kind of how they see it, and they want to aspire to living a certain lifestyle. But all of that aside, your business is solving a problem in the world or in your community, and there are some problems that the government cannot solve, community organizations and NGOs cannot solve, even churches cannot solve. A business shows up and solves it. So, that’s why businesses pop up, and they need to be creative, because they’re solving problems. So, who’s ahead of that company or who conceived that idea and saw the solution? That’s you as an entrepreneur. So, you really have to take care of yourself. Like, your mindset is gonna make or break the solutions that your community gets. So, my advice would be to guard your heart, guard your mind, take care your mindset. Because the better you are at doing what you’re doing is the better that the community you’re serving will be at the end of the day, because your solution is dependent on you. And that’s kind of why I’m always into self-development. I’m like, the better a leader is, the better the company is. So, you’re either the lid to your cap in your company or you’re the one who’s pushing it through different levels, right? And just creating amazing solutions that are impacting the lives of people, and never forget that. Like, just don’t forget it. [114.7s]

Patricia [00:52:26] Thank you so much, Debra! We appreciate the time that you’ve taken to grace our podcast and sharing your wisdom with our listeners. And of course, thank you to everyone who has listened to us today. This has been your host, Patricia, and remember, for all your professional business and technical writing needs, there’s only one way to go, and that’s with The Write Direction. See you guys soon! Goodbye!